it's happening **trigger warning** do not read if highly sensitive

Just in case anyone's wondering I made it to the hotel.. dog is freaking out a little but it's gonna be okay,

Thank you for updating. That is good to hear. I did wonder.

I hope you're not feeling like you're in the abyss. We were kindda trained to feel that way when things change and are unsettled. I know, I feel that way when things are changing and I don't know where it's going. I am sure that better days are ahead of you. What is going on right now will one day be ancient history.

My best wishes to you.

Continuing to vent... I stayed at the hotel and realized it's definitely not a long term option because my dog barks at every single noise which made it impossible for me to leave him alone or relax in general, it was a pretty rough night.
So I looked at the apartments, I really liked one of them, it was everything I needed, there's even an indoor pool and work out room so I would have stuff to do..I applied to it and find out today if I get it, however.. it might not be as "Safe" as I thought it was, there were a few incidents nearby of like, cars getting broken into..a shooting of some kind earlier this month nearby.. I don't know if I'm going to be able to find a place and I don't know if I should accept this place, when I was there it seemed safe, there were a few people outside, I didn't see anything that made me nervous about it, but.. I'm just not sure. I just feel like crying because I don't understand why it's so hard to find just a safe apartment for me and my dog in a reasonable distance, it doesn't make any sense to me. it just feels impossible right now..
I might even take that place any way and give it a chance because the city in general is unsafe, and there are more shootings other places, maybe they caught that person if it was on the crime map and it wouldn't be a real issue.. I could pay for underground parking to prevent my car from being broken into.. it's just unfortunate because I really liked it. but at the same time, why would I move to a place where I know for sure there's been a shooting nearby in the past month. My dog does bark at strangers if they are approaching me, some traits I've been trying to work out in him with the Cesar Millan techniques, but he would be threatening to anyone who tried to break in... but ugh... yeah... I'm unsure, sad, still have a lot to do, I don't know how to handle it all.

well I called my mom (grandma) finally and she convinced me not to move into the place with the crime, duh. I'm probably moving back there for a few weeks while I figure out what to do... not exactly what I wanted to do but sometimes that's just life I guess. despite how bat shit crazy she is most of the time she is still fairly reasonable as far as figuring out that kind of stuff

he's moving his stuff out now, I was upset because I wasn't expecting him here and then I opened the door and there he was.. moving the bed with my dog still underneath it. my dog is fine and I put him in the kennel, I think his parents are coming, either that or he's just piling it all in the middle of the apartment.. he said something about me not deserving anything and that i was treating him like trash for the past week.. so there's twisting the knife I guess.

Soo yeah... a lot has happened. my ex tried to go back to his parents and then I got this text saying his parents were screaming at him over this, because he needed to take some time off from work because he is not handling it well, basically he's had this revelation of sorts that that's exactly what he's been doing to me! ughh. it's really just heartbreaking, because I have all this empathy and compassion for him that he could never have for me during our relationship, and it seems like his life is now just literally imploding in on itself.. did I just destroy this person? no.. it was his unsupportive dick parents, I should be allowed to break up with someone and they should be able to go do what they need to heal. It really just sucks all around. Now I just had to let him walk out the door to go back to his parents house to let them scream at him..I've met them the story definitely lines up..they threatened him with the 48 hour hold... after a break up?! isn't it normal for someone to be sad and crying after a break up?! he hasn't like done anything threatening even he's just a broken person right now.. so that's what sucks so much about it.. he won't let me help him either in any way I tried to offer him a room at a hotel (co-dependent behavior but how could you not?) Its like.. I can't even remember all of the horrible things he said that made me feel like total shit for three years. what the fuck. and he keeps saying "i deserve this, I made this happen, don't feel guilty about it" like yeah... yeahhhh.... i know, but I feel pretty effing guilty. hopefully if he really sees what he did by encasing himself in a shell for six years, he was able to name like the exact age that he started acting like this.. he said his parents drilled it into his head to "be a man and suck it up" at age 18 when I suspect he just needed a hug and some emotional support? F*CK. I'm still trying to follow through on my plans.. I tried to already break them and he wouldn't let me:/ so so so guilty. now they locked him out of their house and all his stuff is inside...

It sounds like his parents are major psychopath/cluster B's. To be angry and cold like that is crazy. It does make total sense that he is from a family like that.

As you said, it wasn't working out and that's the bottom line. However, I also see how you can empathize. In the end we are all a result of abuse/trauma. I don't blame you for wanting to help. I hope you will be careful just how much you help and how involved you get or you could get stuck.

Trying to evaluate if he can save himself and not have narcissist behavior anymore is something I can't do and I doubt anyone can do, really. I couldn't help comparing to someone in my family who can behave like a narc but who also stops herself and then feels bad. She self corrects. She was trained from infancy to be angry, punishing, to lie, to envy, to follow the leader at all cost. She is so afraid of listening to her own heart and soul that she has phobias and has to look at other people and read books to figure out how to do natural things. This is the abuse that did that, of course, but I also see glimpses of her trying hard to care about people. Honestly care. Like there is someone trapped deep inside who may one day become strong enough to rebel and grow and break that mold she was put in. That may or may not happen. When I compare us, I was always the stubborn "strong" one who said "NO". I refuse to give in and accept. I was still played and used like a puppet but I tried to remain "me". Those who are lost in their roles seem to have difficulty in saying "no". I don't know enough to say why that happens, but even with that kindness hidden inside, they still may never dare to change. Feeling safe in the pattern. Or it will take them 50 years or so. Who knows.

I do know, that no matter how many videos I share, how many things I try to explain, it is futile. I can't save others. I can't wake up others. It has to come as a wish from them and I am just in their way.

As you can guess, I am hoping you will be careful and not get trapped in helping so much that you can never be free of a situation that isn't working out.

Wishing you all good things and I know, I am meddling but I am trying to help. It's okay to ask me to stop if you prefer not to get that extra eyes on it, stuff.

Yes.. it does make sense.. and it's definitely a family dynamic that is unhealthy and I'm thinking distancing myself from that is a good idea either way. I feel really bad for him and I hope he pulls through a better person, but even though he *might* be regretful about his actions now and see that the stuff he did was wrong, it kind of doesn't matter because I need to help myself first and get into a better environment, and it's not like those behaviors wouldn't come out eventually again.

That's sad about your family member too, there's not much you can do until someone really realizes that they want to change and even then it's their own responsibility.. So I'm going forward with my plans, I talked to my financial advisor and am going to take her advice rather than my mom's because it's 100% fact based and my mom kind of also doesn't give the best advice either, I think her hidden agenda might be trying to get me to stay with her like, forever.. haha. Thanks though for the support and encouragement, it has been helpful, not too meddly at all. As long as the potential email notifications you've been getting from this aren't too annoying:) I'll probably continue this thread as I vent and move into a new place.

Notifications are not annoying. I'm just sitting here with my fingers crossed and hoping that things will all go smoothly and so far, you've handled things really beautifully, I think. I'm just happy to see that.

And yeah. Moms. Both my parents are cluster b. So yeah, I can see she might have her own agenda.

As always; wishing you all good things out there.

I am SO mad right now, I already journaled about it privately and I know what he's doing is f*cked up. He showed up here yesterday and this morning super early and I woke up to him fucking watching me sleep. He's just been crying at me and begging me to take him back and give him another chance, I literally hate him right now. I literally hate this person. I think I have a bit of a fight response..

So he goes from telling me its not my fault to today, after I listened to him beg to have me back for three hours he calls me and is now making me take over the lease and pay him back his security deposit and the rent and next months rent possibly, all in all extorting about two grand from me.
The reason he's doing this is because the carpet has some damage from the dog. I get that the dog is my responsibility but he admitted to me that he would see the dog pee, say nothing about it to me, and do nothing about it as in.. clean it up.. therefore the pee sits on the carpet and when I find it dry later it's obviously almost impossible to clean.

1. I never wanted to live in a carpeted place but I get that I signed the lease and no one forced me, he basically manipulated me into giving up the things I was asking for.
2. I feel we are equally responsible for the damage in the apartment, there is also the door that he kicked down that still needs to be replaced, I said I'm not paying anything until the door is fixed.
3. He also ruined the garbage disposal by never scraping his plate and just dumping shit down there, all the appliances are dirty as shit that I've been scrubbing that he's never cleaned.
4. He signed the lease too and I didn't force HIS hand. I don't feel like he should be able to get out of it just because he's not getting what he wants.
5. He threatened to have his mom come over here in ten minutes after he left and went from sobbing and apologizing to literally threatening me financially and said "GOOD" when I told him this was going to hurt my credit score and he's fucking up my life.

He is a fucking evil person, I don't really feel bad anymore about what I'm doing because of his actions now, I'm glad the sugar sweet persona left because he is truly an asshole deep down. So is his mom, I am SO mad, but in the end I just let him yell at me and said "okay" to what he was saying so him and his mom don't come over here and so it doesn't get worse, But... I'm considering if I should call my lawyer on tuesday and just.. stomp on his life.
because I'm pretty sure he can't just force someone to take over a contract if they don't want to.
Alternatively I could just relinquish the two grand because in the big picture.. I just want this to be over and I want him to leave me alone, a drawn out legal battle over my 25 year old immature ex is not what I want and it's not what I want the people in my family network hearing about, they all talk to each other..

He also knows I have a huge project due tomorrow (though they said I could have a couple extra days I might have to take that.. ) and he's just monopolizing my time to make himself feel better. I'm getting out of here as soon as tuesday/wednesday because I actually did find a really nice place that I like that has *wood plank laminate floors* like I wanted to begin with and I don't think I'm going to ever talk to him again. If he calls his mom to deal with his problems why shouldn't I let my lawyer deal with mine? Fuck that guy.

Aside from that the lawyer will also cost money, I doubt it would be two grand though, but I'm still going to owe rent on the first and I even offered to take over the rent.. It's mostly just because he doesn't trust me and he's convinced I'm going to fuck him over and won't just take my word that I'll pay when I said I would even though I've *always* paid. He's just trying to get money out of me now because he fucked up and didn't save like he lied and said he was going to, he's been living paycheck to paycheck this whole time and spending everything extra he had on like, weird random shit... and weed.

So Idk. I have to finish my project and of course it's on my biggest computer so I can't just take it anywhere.. I'm living in fucking fear that him and his mom are going to show up here and just keep trying to yell at me and gaslight me and extort money out of me.. It's really awesome (sarcasm sorry..) If that happens though I'm just going to stay calm, just verbally said OK to whatever, but I'm definitely not signing anything. If they try to force me to sign a contract I'm going to just give them the two months rent in advance and say fuck you guys... what they want any way.
And I thought it would be easy..haha. of course not.

It turns out extortion IS a crime and blackmailing me/threatening me to pay off the 60 days notice because he can't be civil around me during a break up IS wrong:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion
I took pictures of the damage he did and emailed it to myself as well as the texts threatening me unless I pay him and take over the lease. Hopefully that'll be enough proof... I should've taken pictures of the other stuff he did.. IDK. this is so fucked up.

oof... sorry about that experienced a bit of turbulence. So his mom came over and at first she just yelled at me, but then we came to an agreement that I'm paying for next month since I did the dumping and I need time to clean and sort through my things (fair? hardly but I just want the shit to stop, also that's still f*cking extortion but apparently they both feel they are above the law and don't even know that blackmailing me and getting me to pay for shit is a fucking crime) and he's not going to be allowed over here anymore since she's taking the key. I said it's not fair for me to pay his security deposit back directly to him before I get mine and see what the actual situation is just because he's broke obviously and wants to rent a new place, and she said she could give him some money but she "didn't raise her children that way" hah, okay. but she raised him to be a little tyrant sooo.. idk.. yeah that was messed up, she basically just talked at me and tried to manipulate me for three hours, but I kept saying like, I don't want couples therapy or to try to work it out, I just want it to be done and it's just really shitty that they're both backing out of this contract now and trying to mess my life up just because I made a decision to end the relationship and he's unable to handle it.
I don't think i'm going to take legal action because I want this to be over as fast as possible. I haven't even had time to break down and cry that much or really grieve at all and I feel like, really f*cked up. spinning spinning spinning...
Just try to think of the future, the nice new place and i won't have someone coming home and complaining about how I didn't clean enough or do this or that. so yeah, it'll be worth it. p.s. I don't really hate him it was just super horrible.

You are very level headed when I compare to how I used to be. You've been yelled at and manipulated for hours and that's enough to make any human being go into a tailspin.

Please don't beat yourself up about not being able to rest. You can expect an attack basically any time because when people are doing the "I want" and crazy-making tactics, they make sure to put you on edge. It seems like the mom sure wants you stressed out, so "you know she's the boss". It looks like he is her puppet and her property so because of her ownership, she steps in, to make sure you treat her property the way she wants. Like he was a car or something. Anyway. I don't envy him.

My life is different and I have my own mess to deal with so seeing you get to a better place is a relief in a way.

I don't know if you meant that you would move this week, or next week but as always, I wish you the very best.

Thanks NotSoZen, I hope your situation gets better for you, that really sucks, I hope flipping my life inside out maybe will be some inspiration for someone else or helpful somehow to see how this all goes down. Trying my best to keep my cool, it's pretty hard, currently mostly feeling angry and seeing I have a combination of all four responses at any given time, I guess c-ptsd comes with living in any different reactive state because of the stress and anxiety. I really should have known he couldn't be in an adult relationship when I met him, but there were some signs I ignored.

man.. this just goes on and on. Since his mom left I've just been going over in my head what happened today, over and over.. is this a flash back? IDK. I also cleaned and threw a lot of things away that were broken anyway or never used.. but I literally got harassed from 6:30am to 3pm today, First by my ex for three hours, then he left and sent his mom for three hours.. Which is really interesting now thinking back on it, I have her on audio/vid recording admitting that it was her idea to try to extort me for the rent and getting out of the lease and 60 days notice just so he could pay his rent at the new place...and basically she just didn't feel it was her duty to give him money, but since I dumped him and made him sad it was mine? that doesn't make any actual sense..

She's also a cosigner, so we're all on the contract and it needs to be civil and fair, that is the stance that I maintained and kept maintaining, she is very concerned with public image, so much so that she's coming over tomorrow to clean the place and fix everything top to bottom, so... I'm gonna let her do that, and then possibly sue her for both the extortion and harassing me in general. HA. just kidding, but the urge for revenge is strong, and I feel mostly anger right now. Probably because since the moment I woke up and into the afternoon I was getting cried and yelled at. My ex texted me and called me beautiful yesterday (did not compliment me during the relationship), but then today he screamed that I was trash over the phone. So I'm starting to understand this idealization/devaluation thing that's happening..all because I didn't just agree to everything they asked and wanted out of the relationship.

So while she was yelling at me trying to just twist the story and saying things like I owe them because I dumped him (?) even though we all signed a contract and knew this could potentially happen because we are young and not married... sooo...all I did was sit there and not say anything except pointing out the most obvious fallacies in her arguments like, why would I pay his security deposit directly to him? I'm not the landlord, the carpet was going to be replaced anyway, and it is still getting cleaned.. I paid an extra pet security deposit in the beginning even.. There are so many reasons why what they are doing is wrong. I should have waited till after the first and let him pay rent but I was too freaking honest. And I just basically stared at the wall and didn't react to anything she was saying except maintaining my original position.

I have to be really careful because I've had mental health problems in the past and really did not enjoy the hospital. I'm kind of surprised that I'm not flipping out more.. after all I was the one originally diagnosed as cluster B..though I can feel that I need to cry and right now I can't, so it'll probably come later and that's gonna be hard.

She also tried to ask me if I wanted to go to couple's therapy and I almost just like, laughed because just that is actually crazy, but I just kept saying no, I don't want to be with him, I'm not interested anymore, he was abusive, and I don't want to be with him.
It's also really interesting how she came in fighting basically, like just started yelling right off the bat and then started looking embarrassed when she realized I wasn't as crazy as she had been told or thought maybe, kept like, saying stuff about how I was a "smart girl" and then chuckling to herself..

This is when I got the recording, I looked it up and I live in a one party state, meaning you don't need both members of the conversation consent to record it and use it in a court room.. I have everything I need if I want to at least get a mark on her record... do I take revenge or will I regret it after.. I guess the best revenge would be living well as they say. moving on from this bull shit and probably never ever dating ever again, haha.

I also took pictures of all my things, so if tomorrow when she comes and cleans and there's anything broken or missing I will have proof..I also took pictures of the door that he kicked down so the landlord knows what it looked like before she does her "patch job" which should also be interesting. Ugh, just how she was today disgusted me, I don't want anything to do with her or honestly the whole family.. I see him as just a sad kid but calling me trash today and flipping from sugar sweet to screaming at me on the phone because I don't want to pay him money immediately is really solidifying as far as ending the relationship goes.. I'll probably feel worse for him later and will have to remind myself how stupid it all was. luckily I kept lots of journals and can flip through any couple of pages and see the ways he made me feel like crap.

whew... I think my new favorite song is silence. I had a quiet day thank goodness. Actually had time to work, took a bath, cleaned a little, noticed that the main damage on the carpet is from the shitty finish job his mom did on an ugly ass chair she gave us so... not my fault, not my problem.
She actually threatened to move in yesterday and I said "okay" haha. She hasn't been here to "clean" surprise surprise... My ex texted me asking to feed his cat.. (he left his cat here dudes?) and I had already fed the cat because it was like, hours later than the cat gets fed.. so I told him that his mom can come clean after I'm moved out already next week.. no response.. I think they are embarrassed.. as they probably should be.
Anyway I also got a storage unit for later tonight so if I want I can start moving things I know I want to keep out of here.. I think going by the law exactly and by the contract instead of just fleeing helped me, because otherwise they would have flipped it around like I was bailing on the lease, so I think it'll all work out in my favor I hope.. She also wants me to walk in to the leasing office with them both and like, do something with the lease like take my name off or something? but I'm not going to do that.. Im turning in the written 60 days notice like what's stated in the lease and not going to confront anyone face to face like that especially when she seems like a really aggressive confrontational person..I want noooo part in that.
Okay.. breathing, remaining calm.. back to work.

also another detail I forgot that was really frustrating was that she was clearly threatening me with the carpet thing, and then with moving in because she's a cosigner, basically just trying to get me to leave right away and mess up my schedule/work/life just because he can't be civil around me like an adult.. it's really interesting watching them being unable to cope with my newfound boundaries and then threaten me with things, then I would say "why are you threatening me, what exactly are you asking for?" and she would just say "i'm not threatening you, no one's threatening you.." ... um... okay. so THATS what gas lighting means. and this wholeeee time I was being accused of being selfish and an actual narcissist and that *I* was gas lighting, that's really messed up.
It took me like a year of intense self help therapy to see this.

Yes, it does sound like your boundaries and the way you are able to deal with their crazy making is working. That's pretty cool


Also awesome with the storage. I thought about storage also, way back, long story. It's good to have.

Great to hear about the peaceful day, also. You earned it.

Edit: PS: Not trying to be glib. I'm trying to avoid meddling. lol. I am happy for you.

Thanks. yesterday was more rough..
it started with his mom calling the landlord and trying to get me in trouble for giving my 60 days notice, she basically just made herself look stupid and confirmed I was right.. It just really sucks because now I'm just like, sad... missing my ex even though he was a jerk, I don't have anyone anymore and that really blows. I keep trying to ask my parents for help but they aren't listening to me and keep doing things like pressuring me to "hurry up and make time" I don't find it helpful. So it's been a lot more tears yesterday and today but hopefully I can rest soon.

Today I'm signing the lease and getting the keys, then moving my things by myself but I'm quickly running out of energy.. maybe I'll drink some coffee..
I had to sleep on the floor last night because they came and took the bed and couch which is fine because it's theirs, just weird because they only took it so I couldn't use it cause he doesn't even have a new place. my mom told me to "just stop thinking about them" hah... okay.. It just felt like his mom wanted to punish me or destroy my life for wanting to leave.

But technically have this place for another month so I'm using it for storage too partially until I can get the rest out. Im just trying to be okay and hoping that I have enough energy for this and to move my things without breaking down again, yesterday I broke down pretty bad and just like was hyperventilating and sobbing because I feel really really overwhelmed. It comes and goes though. Sometimes I feel happier and excited but yeah, looking at my pile of stuff is overwhelming.

I am sorry to hear that. The crying and the sadness and the lack of help. It is awful.


First of all, I believe that things can change. It is possible to meet new people soon, who can make you smile. They may not be able to be your best buddy right away, and I am trying to avoid doing that kind of thing myself. One of the pitfalls of having "baggage". But to be able to hang around people, like kids, like animals, like positive people having fun. Things where one can take part maybe.

And secondly, remember that it's actually pretty normal. I mean, yes, a lot of people have someone they call their best friend, but even then, I am not so sure people always tell their best friends everything. Either because of shame, or fear of losing them or some other reason. All in all, it is my impression that even those with big families can feel really lonely and realize that no one understands.

Out there, there are people with all kinds of issues. They might be dealing with parents who are out of control and hoping they will be old enough to move out soon, instead of running away. There are adults abused all the time and not telling anyone. There are people crying over gender issues. And that's just... the list is so long. So many have huge problems. To be homeless with kids. Or getting sick and just... not having the money.

I know, it's lonely and it's good to cry, but don't put too much weight on your shoulders. For some, it's prayer that helps. I'm not that religious, so I meditate. I'm one of those strange people who sit there and "connect" to the higher, positive parts of myself and then listen and ask for guidance. Positive guidance. That is how I feel connected when there is no one else. Many will probably have their own version of this and some will scoff. That's up to them. But that works for me. I read, the other day, about automatic writing. Basically sitting down to let the "muse" come through, get to that place where there is no thought. Just quiet. And then ask a question and as words come, just write them down. Write, write, write. Maybe it's the subconscious that answers the question, I don't know. Maybe it's a bit different from person to person. Some are more in tune with the more practical parts of themselves and their mind. I don't know. Others are more in tune with the colorful, imaginary, creative part. Either way, this can help.

When I've cried and felt so awful, and I've had a break, I sometimes pull myself up by the .... whatever it's called... and force myself to meditate and go to that positive place. To avoid that spiral that never ends. To avoid getting stuck.

That got long. You can do this. You are doing this. You are doing well. I know it's tough. I hope there is some kind of inspiration in the above.

My very best to you.

Thank you, that's really helpful perspective and I think I'm doing better today, yesterday I ended the day really happy, today I'm somewhere in the middle.. realizing I may have slightly alienated myself by moving into this nice loft space because my underground artist/music friends will hate it, but then I also get to be the weird artsy type of the building, haha, I think that'll be alright though, there's a nice young lady down the hallway from me and a lot of fairly attractive hunky men O_o uh oh, stay awayy, lol. But my dog has been enjoying looking out the window:)
The important part is that I like it because its *my* home, so that's what I need to remember.
I definitely want to find a way to help others but for now staying stable and finding a positive place in my head and taking care of my health is #1 priority, as well as showering, eating, etc.. yes.. I can do it it's just going to take some time to get used to and to find my groove. If you ever need someone to vent to I can be there<3
Thanks so much. Hope you have a good weekend.

Thank you. That is very kind of you At the moment I am mostly focusing on my health and meditate and stuff. Taking things step by step.

When you describe the loft, it sounds like a really good place. Did you move in? Or did you only move a few things? I think it's wonderful that you already have a place.

That's good, meditation is really helpful so far I found.
I pretty much am totally moved in! and my mom showed up to help and even though she drove me a little nutty it was really nice of her and we managed to get all the furniture ourselves, no bed yet but the old futon I dragged out of the basement will be good for a while. I already saw a couple friends in town last night and yeah.. basically my life did a complete 180, at least on the surface level as of now, but I know there is a lot more work to do as far as making sure I'm healthy, and making sure this doesn't happen again. I'm going to be alright though!

That's awesome As long as you are out of the situation, the rest is going to be more peaceful. I think you did great.

Hi there, I'm doing better, starting to settle into my new place.. there was one incident where a girl was flipping out in the hallway and I had to call the apt manager after she wouldn't stop yelling after just confronting her face to face and asking if there was some kind of problem, but yeah that was unfortunate.. no trouble since then.
His mom texted me this morning about some random crap that was unnecessary which definitely triggered me and I ended up telling her to fk off, ahh.. oh well.. they have not been very nice to me, I don't feel like I have to be nice to them anymore.

I'm still not sure if I'm the problem though which is the actually crazy part, thinking that it's literally all my fault, wondering if I did the right thing... but of course I had to leave, I should have left within like, two weeks of the relationship starting. It's the self doubt that really sucks though. I had a professional project that suffered because of this break up and them not leaving me alone to be able to work, but I guess that's just life, it'll be okay though. I know I'm definitely *part* of the problem, which caused me to get into these bad relationships and stay in them for a long time to begin with.. that's the being a co-dependent part, feeling like I couldn't exist without someone, but they (him and my last ex, who I think was more on the cerebral narc side) never really loved me, I think that's the part that hurts the most is that he couldn't just love me normally like I really wanted him to, that's all I really wanted.

The covert narc course has been really really helping me, but I still wonder if I'm the covert narcissist, which just like.. can't be true, narcs don't wonder if they're narcs right, I don't have a need to exploit other people unless really wanting to be loved was exploitative.. maybe..from what I understand wanting to be loved is normal. I definitely may have had borderline tendencies when I was younger though, possibly still even, I have a fight response that causes me to be semi-aggressive with people who have "wronged" me, which perpetuated this thought that I had a personality disorder in my head that probably wasn't true.. I also really feel bad because I think I left Richard an angry comment about how "borderlines are people too" on one of his videos before I really got into them, because I was looking for help and didn't realize that it's more likely I'm on the cptsd side after doing a lot more research.. I guess he probably gets angry comments all the time but I'm still sorry:(

Trying to differentiate between building self-confidence and becoming aggressively grandiose, I don't think that's really possible though if you met me you'd probably laugh at that, so hopefully I'm right in thinking that and I can be an okay person, though I do enjoy performing on stage since I was a little kid.. I remember thinking when I was five I wanted to "be a famous artist" so my birth parents could find me... it turns out they could have found me the whole time, they just didn't want to. The famous part drifted away and it changed into "being able to support myself" with the arts.. which I think is okay, but it worries me that my entire interests and sense of self could stem from that thought I had when I was five about my birth parents finding me. That's not really narc behavior I think just kind of sad right..

But anyway, other than the back and forth in my head and adjusting to A LOT more stimulus being in the city, it's more exciting here, there are much more interesting things to look at, and hopefully I find a way out of my cave.. going down to the gym and taking my dog out a bunch of times per day somewhat forces me to interact with others, it'd be nice to make real friends though..I pushed everyone away several years ago when getting into the first bad relationship with the cerebral narc.. all in time I guess. Doing the best I can for sure right now. The grief has been pushed aside to get work done but it comes and goes, I guess it's here now so I have to feel it and just let it wash over me, which sucks and it's a feeling I keep fighting.. I don't want to miss him at all, I really don't.. but I still do, I still wonder if I caused it all or if it's all my fault. do I even deserve to live in a nice place, what is deserving anyway, does anyone deserve anything? is that the moral relativism that my ex has been pushing into my head over and over..I really hope I can clear it up and fix myself, not let this keep happening, feeling somewhat self centered lately but it's probably because my life just imploded. These negative questions I keep asking myself are the inner thought dialogue that's been hurting me too, trying to change that... everything just feels so foreign to me right now.

A new beginning. Yes, it makes sense that it's challenging. Not a happy start with the woman in the hallway. I do think the city has more of those.


I hope you can let go of the guilt. Even without all the Narcissist stuff and the borderline, it is still two people where it wasn't working out and it's okay to leave. No matter what the reason is.

I wonder if you feel a bit maternal, also. I think some women do. I grew up having the mother role and the father role sometimes and tended to attract men who liked that. I still have that feeling that I need to save everybody, help the homeless, help people in need, be the one who endures when others are happy, take on the tough stuff when others run from it, be responsible above and beyond normal, always do the right thing ethically and so on. It's taken me a long time to realize that the weight on my shoulders was put there. Yes, I am a naturally caring person BUT I am not responsible for others. I can't be. The only way this world works, is when people are responsible for their own self. I don't mean money or the usual stuff that some mean. I mean emotionally. We can't teach people what to do or how to feel. I tried and tried and hoped things would get better. I still have to tell myself to stop trying, sometimes. We can be kind, we can help to a point, but we have to stop ourselves before we take on responsibility for another persons happiness and well being. If their life sucks, it is a tough thing to deal with but we can't carry their baggage for them. Only behave as decent people and try not to get pulled into anything negative.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but really; if a relationship doesn't work, it is okay to walk away. Especially with no kids. Better now than later.

And the whole thing about our own issues. Yes. We were brought up by people who had problems. Most of us, anyway. That means we copy them. We learn a lot of stuff that we don't even realize and behave partly like them. However, what I am noticing in myself is, that even though I have done things that were wrong or messed up, I did them with good intentions. I did them as a reaction to what was going on, either to save others or protect myself. Or both. I used the tools I had learned and didn't realize those tools were bad. Sometimes we don't copy the parents but we go in the totally opposite direction. If they seem uninterested, we get very interested. If they seem quiet, we get loud. If they seem to have zero boundaries, we get super boundried and we try to stop bad things from happening constantly. And so on.


I am trying to stop my bad habits and they are getting more mellow. I make progress. Yes, we are a mix and match of things but the way I see it there are good points: 1) We mean no harm 2) We aren't super focused on being in power, in control and dominant. 3) We may try to manipulate a situation so that we don't get egg on our face, - or to make someone like us. This is normal. It's not narc stuff. 4) Yes, so we can get angry. We can get scared. We can feel guilty about having feelings. Being angry, being scared, are both normal. Feeling guilty is not. If we over react, okay, so we did that. We will try better next time.

And you know, if one in 10 people are cluster B, according to the psychiatrists, then those people have children who are either scapegoats or golden children. Let's say that those 10 people each married one like them. And they all had 2 children. That adds another 10, I think. So that means 1 in 5 are now totally messed up. Some in denial, some in pain and some trying to control everything. That's a lot of people. And that's not even counting all the shades in between. The lower degrees. So basically; it's normal to have a lot of problems.


If you do things coming from a good place within, then you win. We can't take anything with us when we leave one day except that legacy of kindness. Even today, people who got famous and it gets out that they were nasty people? It's all for nothing. Where people who go through life being decent and doing their best, are remembered by other good people as just that. Those who are not nice... well, I remind myself that their opinion is NOT the truth. And that is not MY truth. I prefer to be in the world of good things and do my best to get out of that dark world the cluster b's live in.


I know, it must be a bit lonely. I think you will find the good people around you, soon.


As always my best wishes to you. I am very happy that you are out of there. My 2 cents.

Thanks @NotSoZen, I appreciate all your help. Haha yes there are many more of the flipping out women/men in the city, probably best to not approach her next time and just make the phone call, in a way I was trying to be nice by giving her a warning but she was probably on something. Though I haven't seen her since then, not even sure that she lived here.  

Anyway I've also started to notice a lot more of these narc type people, literally everywhere! though I think there are just as many good people, and hopefully more of them, but everyone has their problems, I'll just have to be careful because I've been clearly leaving myself open to be a target, hopefully after learning about this it won't happen again.

I have the internet now again so I feel a little more connected, starting to look at dance classes, maybe finding a therapist if I really think that'd help me this time.. not sure. I think the thing I need to focus on is asking myself what kind of a life I want to live now, what do I want to spend my days doing, what is it that I actually enjoy, etc.. So I think I could build a schedule around those things and try to take care of myself. I think earning my own money too would make me feel more independent, rather than just living off what was given to me, so I'm trying to continue building my business though it's suffered lately because of the big life transition.

I definitely have a maternal sense I think, I have a bunch of younger half siblings I wasn't able to protect, our mother kept getting pregnant on purpose to "fill the void" but then she'd just leave us with other people:/ I know she's sick too, but I definitely can't help her, I've been no contact with her over a year now, maybe two I think... She sees me as competition really and has expressed mostly jealousy over things that I have, even though we've had very little contact and don't know each other that well at all.

At least one of the siblings has been exploitative of me and acted very entitled, I'm kind of just avoiding her giving the old "yeah sure we should totally hang out" and then just putting it off and off.. I called her out on it though and since then she has not talked to me much or even apologized really for her behavior, which was expected I guess.

What's tripping me up right now is not knowing what a healthy normal life is supposed to look like, especially since I'm completely in charge of my own schedule and myself it's kind of weird. I used to form my entire schedule around when my ex would get home for lunch or leave/come home for work, just was constantly thinking about him and yeah, I've just been very self abandoning.

But i think what I want to do is hang out in coffee shops, go to the museum and draw the exhibits, read a lot and learn.. hang out with friends eventually, but I need to make some new friends that aren't just kind of potheads.. I know I have at least one of these but I can't put all my needs on her either, but it's nice to know I definitely have at least one.

Speaking of the pot I've been doing pretty well cutting back at that, I went a few days without, felt fine. Ended up eventually taking one or two puffs very late at night before bed during some writing but I don't feel dependent on it as I did before, didn't smoke at all yesterday without even realizing it or thinking about it so that's good, and I feel like I don't really need it to eat either, doing better at just eating too, making sure I have food I like at home. It probably seems like I have such first world problems and it's really true, but yeah.. the situation I was in was definitely abusive, so even if I have literally everything else I need the abuse would still be painful for me and still harmful.

I'm happy I'm out of there too, even if sometimes it feels like i'm not, and sometimes I miss just having someone around, even if he was an a$$, but I know life can be better for me now it's just what am I going to make out of it, what kinds of things will I learn to make life better and what will I do for myself now that I can actually do something... a guy I thought was cute asked me out to coffee (I assume this is a date, adult males and females don't just go out for coffee and it *not* be a date, I mean assuming they're both straight which he is) I said that sounded good to me, but I think he knows he has to wait:P so there wasn't a set day or time or anything, and I need at least six months... maybe even a year considering the two relationships lasted 7 years total, I probably have a LOT to sort out before I'm ready to go out with someone, but it still feels good that maybe there was someone who was actually interested in getting to know me, neither of my exes asked me out for coffee in like a "normal" way like that.

One thing I noticed is I immediately started being able to wear dresses again, haha. The past two relationships I had I was very criticized for wanting to look "pretty" or feminine in any way, which is kind of just what I naturally like and am drawn to, but they would imply I wanted attention from other men or that I was dressing like a whore etc etc..so now I can wear whatever I want without anyone telling me what to do or making a weird comment about it, which is pretty great..

Basically I can do whatever I want to now! which is pretty great..new found freedom.. it's crazy how just a couple weeks ago my life was so so different, so under control without even knowing how it was being controlled, very surreal.