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LadyWithaSilverLining wrote:Psychic Reading Fraud and Narcissistic Personality Disorder - It’s Uncanny!

You inspired me to go write something on psychic connections and NPD. I won't type it here. Wrong place. But wanted you to know in case you were interested. I put it in the General forum.

Greetings Richard,

I'd love to know your take on how Stockholm Syndrome can factor into the relationship between a narc and a people pleaser.

Ta muchly

Hallo Richard,

Ich bin aus Deutschland und 34 Jahre alt.
I have two questions that are related to each other. about half a year ago I went no contact with my family after becoming the scapegoat. you helped me a lot, I also went through most of your courses. My Family, including my covert NPD mother bothers me much less.

Even though I feel more free, thrive and enjoy my time with my husband, I spend too much time thinking of my family that I could put into other things. They are always present in the back of my head and I feel it keeps me from moving on with my life and that it makes me sick. Recently I feel very impatient and angry with myself that I still "hang around with them."

I am afraid that when I stop giving them space in my life and in my head, that I might suppress emotions or processes that are important to look at and that I might harm myself by that.

1. How can I move on and put them aside, without avoiding, or supressing my emotions or simply bypassing?

Another thing related to this is my self-boycott. Because of beliefs, fears and programs implemented in childhood I tend to pull the break, when things in my life accelerate and when I get the abundance I always wished to have. For example I catch a flu or find other excuses to slow down again. It makes me so sad, because finally it is my turn and I want to take that chance so much!

2. how can I overcome this self-boycotting program and move on?

Thank you!

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I've been doing a lot of research on the subconscious mind, after diving into NLP again. because one of my studies was phenomenology and dreaming. call me crazy, but I feel like the only way to communicate with a narc is subconsciously.

there is:
conscious input which they cannot accept.
conscious output which is being assertive

subconscious input which they actually can accept and process. and
subconscious output which is passive aggression.

Do you think this is a safe assumption? and if this ties into Jung's idea about the Anima/Animus being a mediator between the conscious and the subconscious mind, is their's simply broken?

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Reading for Later:
http://pete-walker.com/shrinkingInnerCritic.htm

Right! I cannot find any help relating to the type of help I need because it Is the complete opposite of what we are told/taught to do when dealing with these ill people. Thanks to Richard and other You Tube authors I have discovered what the hell has been going on with the previous 42 years of existence.To be given the insight and the opportunity to wipe the slate clean and live MY life as ME, free from toxic manipulation is a gift that I'm gratefully taking, as daunting as it is.
Now there are some loose ends with my previous existence that need to be dealt with. We are constantly told no contact ( which is the only way) how do we reverse this so that the narc thinks your thinking about him, wanting him so that he does make contact? assuming he hasn't found another supply. Strange request I know and am happy to explain why I would want a mentally ill person to contact me. Any help or direction would be appreciated.

Antiwitchdoctor wrote:After the fall out. when all the lies and cheating have come out and you hate the man as much as you love what you thought he was. how do you move on, forgive yourself and let the anger go towards a man that was your soul mate but turned out to be a complete and utter bastard ? Im struggling to move on after finding out the depths of the manipulation , gas lighting, hoovering , i've had it all for 10 years. if this guy isn't a covert somatic narc i'll eat my hat. I never want to see him again as the fog is clearing, but with it the realisation of what has happened to me is crushing me. How was i so stupid ?

Yes this is what I also need help with. I want and miss a man who didn't really exist. I know life with him would be no life,
I'd be constantly waiting a discard the next time a girl shows him interest.
I am so angry at being wronged and how he hasn't had to face the consequences at all.
You see we never once argued, it was a pleasure to be in his company, every single time. Anything shitty he did he took
the cowards way out, by text. I've not had that release of a face to face confrontation. The man is a stonewall.
Like two different people, in person he was amazing yet when hiding behind a phone he was a ****.
I go to the gym daily, hitting the punch bag across the room, it helps for a bit. But not in the middle of the night when you
wake from a dream with him in. When you've spent all day distracting yourself your mind betrays you when you sleep!

I take some solace in the fact the last time I saw him, it was in public, with mutual friends and he came and stood next to me. I behaved
like he was dead to me, totally ignored him. I hope this hurt.

But I am now scared of men, my judgement is clearly awful despite the fact I have never been with a man I haven't known for at least a year or so.
It takes a lot to get my guard down. This man with npd traits chased me for years and the lovebombing was intense.
I've not been with many, yet every man I have been with people have said I am too good for them (even their own friends).
When the irony is these men have always treated me like I am not good enough for them.
They move on to women who gives them a hard time, they then treat them way better, and then complain to me that these women are not
as calm as I am.
I must be co-dependant, but oddly I feel I do have self esteem. I am very sociable, confident and well liked, but never loved.
I clearly behave like a co-dependant though to end up with such men, I tend to explain away unacceptable behaviour by analysing them and trying to understand that hurt people hurt people.
But as they say "you are not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm" and at the same
time I want to be a reasonable human being by being empathetic.
The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

So really I have two issues, how to stop this unexpressed anger from consuming me, and how to move on, to trust again.
How to behave in a way that men feel compelled to treat me as an equal. Boundaries, I know.
I feel like I have one big boundary and once I finally let a man over that wall it's a free for all. I need some more little internal fences!  
The ex with npd traits has only given me one clue, he said I was too fun to see a future with.
I have no idea what to do with that.
If I am honest, I just really miss sex and I'm just too scared to let anyone near me now.
Do I need to become more of a bitch?


Also, for Richard, I recall in your last podcast mentioning something about the legalities of controlling behaviour and wondered if
you knew about this? Oops I can't post the link as I am new but google "coercive control law uk" and you might find it of interest.

Hi Richard,

I asked a question on YouTube about switching trauma responses. I'd love to hear more about trauma types and how much control we have over them. I'm mostly freeze, but also flight/fawn. I'm struggling to assert boundaries with my family and it's causing a huge amount of stress.

I know you said it's still unhealthy, but is it worth the effort to try and switch to fight to try and get more of what I want in life? Is this what your self assertiveness and people pleaser syndrome videos and courses are doing? Strengthening the fight response?

I have a pretty decent fight response in my head...but 'fuck you' generally comes out as 'ok no problem' haha.

In your case has fight become automatic? Hypothetical if I switched from flight to fight later in life (I'm 27) would I have to consciously use it where I felt it was needed? Would I revert straight back to flight if I was ever faced with a really stressful traumatic situation? Or is it something that can become automatic?

Do you think it's even worth doing or does it defeat the purpose of recovery?

Really interesting topic. Thanks for all that you do!

Book suggestion: Frommer's guide to Planet Narco.

Hi Richard,

I have to admit that I've only been listening to you for about a week and a half but, I'm obcessively listening to your YouTube videos, I feel like I know you already...

Thanks

This is a different type of question. If anybody can answer it, it's you.

Just like there are stages of grief, there are stages of life after narc/abusive/cultic relationship. That's my experience anyway.

Here's the stages I've made up. I'd like to know if I'm missing any - and more importantly - what to expect at the stage I'm at and beyond. Up to now, the territory was somewhat familiar, as I move into what has been a foreign land to me up to this point. I feel a lot of anxiety. It's the same type of "untreated" anxiety I felt as a teenager. While I'm not my anxiety, I know how easy it is to fall back to old patterns and behaviours in times of change/stress.

I've gone through these stages since last July (when I stumbled upon one of your videos and got a course). However, I've only realised recently that I've indeed gone through these stages, and there are probably more to come. This is very helpful to me in general and to let go of my black and white thinking.

Stages of life after narc/abusive/cultic relationship

1) Discovery
Part I - Discovering that this was more than just a hard breakup, that my former partner had indeed messed me up so bad I no longer knew which way was up and I doubted everything. Discovery that, as you mentioned in the course, that I was groomed for this way before I met my exes. I lived my life in a certain reality tunnel, and my map absolutely didn't match the territory... but I lived my way like it did.

Part II - Jeez, there is a pattern (looking back at all other romantic relationships)

2) Shock and denial -- Initiated by your "Overcome narc abuse course"
I - and all of us - were groomed for this. That red pill was really hard to swallow. Doing all the exercises and looking back at the past and my role in it was extremly hard. Yet, learning I could change - remove all the viruses and the spyware, reboot and install proper software was liberating.

3) Roller Coaster Ride
Processing all past emotions and experiences. Seeing where things could have been different if I had been given the proper tools and be taught how to be an independent, sovereign individual.

4) Anger stage (or whatever emotion that wasn't allowed)
What is this I'm feeling? Anger? This is what unrestrained, unrepressed anger feels like? Holy shit! Am I going to feel angry for the rest of my life? (No, but it feels that way when you're in it)

5) So, who am I... really, who am I?
Shedding everything that was stuffed in me and finding out what it is I like, what I want to do, what matters to me, etc.

6) Action stage - this is where I am
To make a long story short. I've started coaching with someone I trust, I'm doing research to shift careers - it involves going back to school. Back in 9th grade, when we had to start thinking about what we wanted to do (In Canada back in the 80s anyway), psychology and mental health is what I wanted to do. That's not what I went into. That's the power of the familial Big Nos. So, at 44, I'm looking into a Diploma/Certificate in Counselling or a Masters related to pyschology. My focus is recovery from indoctrination/cults/abusive relationships. I have experience in the three, and they are all related. (I'm not just saying that, books like Take Back your Life say the thought-control process is the same). Raising awareness about how we are influence and teaching critical thinking is also a focus. So is the importance of secularism. Where I live religion is like gluten - it's everywhere... 14 years ago, I had to cut out gluten from my diet. My current experience about removing all religion and spritual woo from my life is the same. I find it in surprising places.

While some people in my family/social circles are supportive, many don't get it.

I've been getting a lot of panic attacks and really messed up vivid dreams. Before, that would have stopped me. No more. I may get some pushback and resistance from my family.

Apart from managing my state, checking my emotional barometer, having a good routine (sleep, nutrition, exercise, hobbies/fun...) what can I do? I'm aware of the feelings that were induced in me to keep me in line or to shove me in the box they wanted me in. As I move forward, I'm really surprised when the feelings of panic and "not-good-enoughness" fire up and take over my body. Now I know these are implanted thoughts and feelings. If I don't deal with this head on, I may end up sabotaging myself.

What are things I can do to fight back and regain my sovereignty when these feelings show up? It really feels like my life is in danger - I know it's not. I know the worse thing that can happen is that I'm rejected from program X, and there are many other options for me. I'm the freeze-flight (dissociation) type. In case that helps. I want to break that cycle, and I don't know how.

thanks much
SM

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Hi Richard thank you for your sound advice its realy made me aware

Q I now know I have cptsd and have a fawn/freeze response I have an adult son who also has cptsd with a fight response if that makes sense this is very draining for me any advice would be so much appreciated Julie

Hi there,

My very worst habit at the moment is not being able to stand up for myself. I can fight other peoples corners really well, but let people walk all over me. I have recently removed myself from my poisonous FOO, but am no good with standing up to other people either.

When it comes to speaking up for myself I get very frightened, and avoid anything to do with the situation and disassociate. I can avoid things for months, even if they are hurting me, it is 'easier' to take it and not stand up for myself. Forcing myself to do it is almost crippling and I want to run away and hide. I feel as though I am doing something very wrong and bad when I want to stand up for myself, and very am afraid of being told off if I do. I feel it is a VERY childlike response. I'm 40 next month and it can't carry on, it's ruining my life. How can I start to change this behaviour? Where do I start?

Thanks
Scarlet

So here is my insight on boundaries.
I realised lately that what used to attract me to narcissists was their way of setting superficially boundaries, without feeling this guilt and shame, showing as they deserve it totally.
Ok Recently I learned and realised from all my experiences, that on a deeper level they actually dont have any boundaries.
Superficially it looked to me as though they were very autonomous. I used to be jealous of this image of autonomy. Actually I realised this is what used to attract me and kept me stuck there, even from a physical distance.
And my unawareness of myself on this level, the way I was feeling extremely guilty whenever I put boundaries. It took me years to learn to say NO and to accept with joy my decision and not feel tremendous guilt for not letting someone cannibalize me... I really had to work on that for a few years and emotions of anger would come up after my guilt/shame started healing. Still every time someone tries to test my boundaries and see if they can get more than they should of me, I get upset and if they are immature, I get angry and the person totally lose the chance to trust him-her, period. Im constantly on my guard, with my weapons aside and strong tongue. I guess I will relax when I get more used to a more self asserted me...

So this looks like a paradox. They are looking as if they can easily set boundaries, but actually when you get involved, theres no boundary for anything, not your survival. But also, even if they survive, they often lose their mind. Both of my parents where narcissists, my mom covert. They both ended up with psychosis on the process of aging. They couldnt let themselves get older. But they didnt die. They survived. With their heads in the clouds...

But the question is this:
Do we, people who wished to be able to put more boundaries without those surreal feelings of guilt and shame, unconsciously challenge ourselves by relating to narcs, in order to mature on this level?
And what about people who dont want to take on their responsibilities and mature?
Is it all coming down to a fear of feeling the deeper feelings of past traumas, and since narcissists dont feel their feelings, or dont have any feelings and are empty inside, are we jealous of them and try to be like them by relating? (this always explodes but still, I remember me hoping so often it wont... but it did, even with  my parents).
I remember myself in periods that I was trying to empty me of feelings, it was such a burden, I just wanted to avoid them, and on those periods I was always finding narcs to relate to, unconsiously. But I was ending up putting in even more traumatising feelings and memories inside! A totally paradoxical way of being.

I'm just over a year away from my personal adorable bundle of psycho. It's been an enormous struggle. Bound to him mentally in many ways. At least now I know what he is.
There's one aspect of healing and moving forward I'm totally stuck on. I need help with it.
My partner was "alternative" shall we say, in the bedroom.
You mentioned something in podcast 4. Crooks and hooks. About opening the eyes of the less experienced. I trusted him. I believed what he said about being a solid couple we should experiment. But there were rules.
I was his. Others could touch but I'd never belong to them. I was never to put him in a position where he'd be jealous. If I was ever unfaithful. Whether he was present or not I would be being totally disloyal. Yes. He said we should try swinging. I told him I loved only him and it wasnt top of my enjoy list. And I dont know he managed it. If ever I threatened to refuse his "arrangements" his temper would rise so I felt I had to say yes. He always made out we were very tight as a couple. To me and any participant. I sometimes had to numb the sick feeling in my stomach. He had anyone he chose make use of me under the guise of fun. I feel dirty to my core.
Everything contradicted as he walked out on me often. Sometimes for weeks. He assumed he knew me and judged me on the fiction in his head, out of the blue, cruelly etc.
Final discard left me so confused, shaking, nightmares, suicidal at first, isolated and agoraphobic.
I'm fighting all I can. I'm starting to heal.
But I can't stomach thinking I'll ever have another partner. I cannot be sexually intimate with anyone. The thought sickens me and I almost deliberately find no one attractive. Anyone I do meet I judge by my disordered partner. I'm frightened. I don't think I can be attracted or intimate with anyone ever again. But one day I would hope to be. But I cant get over this aversion to sexual intimacy.
None of your fab videos cover anything like this. Please please Richie I need help with this. I am ready to move forward but I'm unable to stomach the thought of being intimate with any possible future partner. In my warped mind it would be horribly unfaithful to a partner iv been no contact with for over a year (apart from a few hoovering attempts on his part, once I'd stopped begging him to come home) AND if it's not the unfaithful feeling, I just think all men want it gratification without true emotional intimacy. This grows in my head all the time and I am indeed really worried about it. I hope this makes sense. Thank you.

Ps. I kept going this time cos tho he's not predominantly physical and only laud hand in me a few times in 10 years he'd started being violent and aggressive in my surroundings and spitting and breaking t things. That is all unacceptable. And knowing that keeps me going. But the sexual side I have no clue how to even begin to get over it. I really need some advice. Thanks again Richie x

Hey Richard,
I watched your recent video collaboration with Dana and I was wondering if you could elaborate on how to be around friends. The way I understand it, one is not supposed to talk about the emotional abuse/trauma of what happened. To me that would seem like the safest way to do that would be to just avoid talking about yourself altogether? Should one even attempt to be around others while trying to overcome this? Being emotionally numb and depressed seems like it would eventually result in having no friends at all. Is it possible to heal without being completely isolated?

I know you have briefly spoke about children being victimized. Could you go a little deeper on the subject, please? My kids are 14 and 11. The Narc here is their father. He has picked my son as his golden child and completely ignores my daughter, although lately he has been showing her "attention" like saying really mean things and when she cries he says he was only kidding. Narc has visitation with them on weekends.

He has also remarried and his wife is quite the flying monkey. She has begun to put my kids down even more than he does. She has been comparing my daughters weight to her daughters weight. Saying my daughter has fat thighs and needs to wear different shorts. Of course, the Narc laughs with joy at these types of things.

I try to strike the balance between not bad mouthing him, but not lying to them about him. It's hard bc most everything he does is real grease ball shit.
My kids and I have good open communication. When they come home and tell me what's been going on over there I ask how that made them feel, and I tell them how he treats them is not right.

My son asked me the other day if the N's wife had a problem with them (him and his sister). I told him that she definitely has a problem but it's has nothing to do with him.

My kids also tell me that all he ever does is talk about me over there. Good, bad, whatever. Triangulation at it's best, I guess.

Is there more that I can do? Please give me any and all of your suggestions.

I myself had 2 alcoholic parents. Dad certainly has narcissitic traits. I was beat, ignored, shamed, all of that in my childhood. Then I was with the Narc for 11 years.
Reading Pete Walkers book now (cptsd). Thank you for that suggestion. I have developed adrenal insufficiency along with a host of endocrine disorders from being in this mess since birth.

Thank you ,I hope you can address my questions. I think you are brilliant. Thank you for helping SO many.