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    Empathy vs. Compassion

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    KatC

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    Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by KatC on Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:15 pm

    On one of the recent videos Richard pointed out that Americans view empathy and compassion as virtually the same thing and then he went on to clarify the distinction between them and the importance that we realize that distinction.  I found that very helpful in my understanding of narcissism as I paired that knowledge with "cold empathy" as noted by Sam Vaknin.  I'm now under the belief that the "experts" have it all wrong,... it seems to me that while the DSM and trained professionals are claiming that narcissists lack empathy, or lack the ability to feel it to the same degree as neurotypicals thats not the case at all.  They do understand empathy, they feed off knowing how they make others feel, so they NEED to be able to feel empathy.  What they lack is Compassion.  They do not feel any distress when seeing others in pain (emotional, physical, or psychological).  This makes much more sense to me given my experience. - I would point out how his actions made me or others feel, he would just say "Yup", which I would follow up with "Well?,.. that's hurtful." Then he would say "Yes, I understand. I just don't CARE." CARE is the operative word. (LACK OF COMPASSION) --- Thank you Richard. I was never able to split the two Empathy and Compassion in my head until you pointed this out. To me they are so intertwined I am unable to experience one without the other and I never could imagine others could either. Now I know. Now his behavior makes sense.


    Last edited by KatC on Thu May 25, 2017 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    wepnode

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    COld Empathy

    Post by wepnode on Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:53 pm

    For years, this caused cognitive dissonance for me, as i KNEW my partner didn't lack "empathy".  It's unfortunate that we don't use all our words, for instance, there are many types of love, and they used to have names.  It  cheapens love, tossing the word around so casually.  My partner didn't respect or understand the type of love i gave, e.g., never forgave me for not being jealous or possessive, never more than when i expressed wanting the best for them, even if that didn't include me.  Machiavelli had empathy.  My partner was also capable of empathy, which would be withdrawn as punishment.  They admitted this.   I no longer believe my partner has Asperger Syndrome--in any event, it proved impossible for me to tease the Asperger from the narcissism, although, typing this now, i see that the deliberate withdrawl of empathy, as punishment, was one tell.  This is the second NARC to present itself to me under the cloak of Asperger.  It was intensely confusing, and i spent so much time and energy trying to rationalize this.  I'm exhausted.

    daisy4

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by daisy4 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:18 am

    can someone post the link to Richards empathy/compassion vid pls? I've never been able to know the difference!
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    wepnode

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by wepnode on Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:30 pm

    i will try and find that for you, but it seems to me it's been removed from youtube.  in the meantime, check this out:  "How to Identify a SOCIOPATH"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsWE_8ZIPQg

    text is here:  http://www.toptenz.net/10-ways-detect-sociopaths.php

    Stop Trying to Figure Them Out: Narcissists Don’t Think Like You Do:

    http://esteemology.com/stop-trying-to-figure-them-out-narcissists-dont-think-like-you-do/#more-2176

    i hope the video you seek is still available.  i found it chillingly honest, and felt that if my X could speak with that level of self-awareness and honesty, they would say EXACTLY what Sam said.

    OK, THIS is the chilling one to which i referred:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLCPDYt1wYk

    I know what the poster means by, "He creeps me out", but i really needed to HEAR Sam speak in this video - "I believe that you believe it.....".

    "All that matters is that you tell them they're good lovers."   So true.   Like, skinning (me), layer by layer....


    Last edited by wepnode on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

    daisy4

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by daisy4 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:55 am

    that's a shame that its been removed. I find the source equally as important as the info and neither of those sites look like specialists in personality disorders. thanks for the effort though. if it was anything to do with sam vaknin I would not have watched it anyway, he creeps me out!
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    KatC

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by KatC on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:30 pm

    daisy4 wrote:can someone post the link to Richards empathy/compassion vid pls?  I've never been able to know the difference!



    Richard references the difference in his video "Sam Vaknin Post Seminar Revelations Video 1"   scroll to 16:15 minutes into the video and you'll find it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alQVT1t61E8


    Last edited by KatC on Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added link)

    daisy4

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by daisy4 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:01 pm

    hi katc, thanks so much for posting the link. I have such a hard time listening to sam.

    so if I've got this right...empathy is the ability to understand what another person is thinking via their actions, words and facial expressions. is it to connect emotionally with the other person also? ie to share (but not take responsibility for) their emotions?
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    KatC

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by KatC on Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:52 pm

    daisy4, yes it sounds like you're understanding correctly what Sam Vaknin was saying, that empathy is the ability to understand another person's viewpoint/perspective/feelings.

    Whether or not you care how they feel is where compassion plays a part in the scenario.

    Knowing how they feel and caring how they feel are two different things.


    daisy4

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by daisy4 on Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:23 am

    katc, understood. thanks. so its right to say that npds can be empathetic also, in the sense that they understand the others emotions BUT choose to use it against the person rather than respond with compassion to the person. wow, some of these descriptive words need a serious overhaul! imo empathy is being used as a combination of empathy and compassion with (another word that need an overhaul) co-dependence.
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    wepnode

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by wepnode on Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:41 pm

    "love" also needs, if not an overhaul, more nuance.  There used to be TYPES of love, not just one single word, which has become so cheapened.

    •Eros  sexual passion and desire . ...
    •Philia  deep friendship. ... a dispassionate virtuous love, loyalty to friends, family, and community, and requires virtue, equality, and familiarity. Philia is motivated by practical reasons; one or both of the parties benefit from the relationship.  To me, this is a merchant-like love.... tit for tat ... where an exchange is expected.
    •Ludus  playful love. ...
    •Agape, or love for everyone. ... moral goodwill which proceeds from esteem, principle, or duty, rather than attraction or charm … to love the undeserving, despite disappointment and rejection.
    •Pragma  longstanding love. ...
    •Philautia   love of the self.
    •Storge  natural affection between kinfolk.  
    •Phileo  “…spontaneous natural affection, with more feeling than reason”;  “to be a friend to…fond of an individual or object; having affection for (as denoting attachment); a matter of sentiment or feeling”.

    Don't even get me started on Romantic Love, that creation of the Middle Ages leisure class.

    Spanish:

    Te Quero - i desire you
    Te Amo - i love you (Amo comes over time) (but Amo is also Master..... hmmmm)

    daisy4

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    Re: Empathy vs. Compassion

    Post by daisy4 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:34 am

    wow. I really like that clarity wepnode and it makes so much sense to me. I study kinesiology and feel there is an energetic connection to the words we use as sounds. so it brings me a lot of peace to find the right words for the right expressions. I think most people subconsciously feel this but are unaware of it. hence 'talking helps'. overhaul to that expression: 'talking helps....when you are using the appropriate words to release the emotional energy'.

    the same can be said of lies. when we hear untruths or conflicting information, I think it affects our energy. possibly causing problems for meridian pathways. for those who are more aware of this energy, it may cause them more problems than others. the silver lining is that it can point out where your talents are.

    so much sense though in those different descriptive words for love. so many different expressions all being lumped together in one word. no wonder there is so much confusion. it also reminds me of the word 'trust'. ie; 'do you trust me?'. I always think...trust them for what? to pay the bills or to have good intentions towards you? a big word.

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